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/vg/ - Video Game Generals

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262696678 No.262696678 [Reply] [Original]

Deathmobile Edition

Previous thread: >>262267587

>What to Play
>Individual Game Pastas

>/rlg/ 's guide for Rogue

>/rlg/'s DDA tileset


12 Aug 2019 - Tenebrae et Mort Alpha 0.1 released - https://gym.itch.io/tenebrae-et-mort/devlog/94062/public-alpha
11 Aug 2019 - Shadow of the Wyrm v1.1.2 released - https://github.com/thindil/steamsky/releases/tag/v4.0
11 Aug 2019 - Steam sky 4.0 released - https://github.com/thindil/steamsky/releases/tag/v4.0
11 Aug 2019 - Zorbus Release 20 with sound effects! released - http://www.zorbus.net/
04 Aug 2019 - Soulash v0.2.7 Drag released - https://wizardsofthecode.itch.io/soulash/devlog/93212/soulash-v027-drag
29 Jul 2019 - Lost Labyrinth DX 1.5.0 "Ettin" released - https://www.labydx.com/download.html
23 Jul 2019 - I Am Overburdened 1.2.4 released - https://store.steampowered.com/app/690560/I_Am_Overburdened/
22 Jul 2019 - Harmonist v0.2 released - https://harmonist.tuxfamily.org/
21 Jul 2019 - Demon 7/21/2019 Version https://ferretdev.itch.io/demon
21 Jul 2019 - Soulash v0.2.6 Version check https://wizardsofthecode.itch.io/soulash/devlog/90975/soulash-v026-version-check
18 Jul 2019 - Possession https://store.steampowered.com/app/629340/Possession/
16 Jul 2019 - Shadow of the Wyrm v1.1.1 http://www.shadowofthewyrm.org/downloads.html

>/rlg/'s shared DCSS online account
User: rlgrobin
Password: ownfault (or "robin" on Xtahua)

Roguelike Servers
http://roguenex.us /(CDDA, Angband, PCB)
http://angband.live/ (Angband and variants, including Frogcomposband)
http://hardfought.org/ (NetHack and variants)

>> No.262696920

bro I'm just pale what the hell

>> No.262697162

Being super fat should give you more torso HP


>> No.262697273
Quoted By: >>262698294

Your body needs to move all that lard around. Between a fat guy and a thin guy, both getting the same amount of exercise bloody rare in the real world, but would be the case in Cataclysm the fat guy would be stronger.
Of course they still don't have a strength penalty for being a woman, so it's not like realism is a consideration here.

>> No.262697745
Quoted By: >>262787408

I'd say instead of more HP, you'd get one point in torso protection

>> No.262698294
Quoted By: >>262698763

>Your body needs to move all that lard around.
Obese people tend to have stronger legs, yes. However, they are still less mobile because it's not enough to compenstate for being fat. It doesn't matter for any other muscles. Fat is not very dense and most of it is stored on the belly, so the meager amount you have on your arms is pretty much irrelevant.

Then we could also argue what "strength" really is. I would expect a fat guy to win a wrestling match with a skinny guy, but I wouldn't expect him to do nearly as many pull ups, if any. But that's a whole different can of worms.

>> No.262698472

>Being super fat should give you more torso HP
DDA also has torso hp represent shit like organ damage from poison and fat sure shouldn't protect against that.

>> No.262698701

You sure about that? Toxicity of substances is usually measured in amount per kilogram of body mass needed to cause an effect.

>> No.262698746

It doesn't protect from bullets either, they go through fat without care. Stabs with a short knife are really an exception, since they make it harder for the blade to reach vitals. But if the blade is long enough to reach them anyway, it doesn't really matter again.

>> No.262698763
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Not him but from what I've heard some extra mass can help in martial arts, I guess it's because thanks to that extra mass you hit harder.

If you look at the current UFC heavyweight champion, Daniel Cormier, you can see that he has some extra fat in him, the current boxing heavyweight, Andy Ruiz also has a good amount of fat in him.

>> No.262698940
File: 122KiB, 1140x835, Ruiz Joshua Boxing.jpg [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

Here's a pic of Andy

>> No.262699198

Blood volume does increase with mass, so technically it does help with resisting toxins. Assuming the dose would be just enough to affect a lighter person, which is very rarely the case outside of tranquilizer agents.

Yeah, mass can be useful in unarmed combat. That's why I went with the wrestling example.

>> No.262699208
Quoted By: >>262704563

Well I don't know about other toxic substances but it seems like alcohol affects overweight people faster.


>> No.262700286
Quoted By: >>262701096

/rlg/ - Fitness

>> No.262700395

mass is gas

>> No.262701096

More like fatness.

>> No.262702991
Quoted By: >>262703862

this is exactly why i complained about the nutrition system just being about stored calories and not also about calories spent to build muscle

>> No.262703000

>page 10 in 22 minutes
Fucking based

>> No.262703101
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>> No.262703862
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Sumo fighting style, when?

These systems have to be built piece by piece. Surely someone will end up implementing a muscle build up system in the future and /rlg/ will complain about having to spend hours ingame lifting weights.

>> No.262703901
Quoted By: >>262704286

see also: Heart in FotNS

>> No.262704286

You should be able to learn hokuto shinken when you reach level 20 in unarmed combat.

>> No.262704403

Retards have been asking for stat grinding for years, it's near certain that it will happen someday if DDA doesn't die soon.

>> No.262704563

This article doesn't sound like it's based on an actual scientific study.

>> No.262704723

Atleast you'd finally have a use for those exercise machines.

>> No.262706404
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This was not a noble way to die. I really though I would just beat them up.

>> No.262708042

*clears throat*


>> No.262708485

lifting weights takes like 30-minutes to an hour and there's pretty much no reason to do it more than once every other day or every third day

>> No.262708709
Quoted By: >>262712514

>dying to rng weavers in 2076

>> No.262708821

>Surely someone will end up implementing a muscle build up system in the future
You poor deluded fool.

>> No.262710437
Quoted By: >>262721343

>find a farm
>over 100 pieces of wheat scattered on the field
Hunger might as well not exist

>> No.262712514
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Dude, they're still playing DCSS in 2076?

>> No.262715714
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Quoted By: >>262715923

I clicked random again, and this is what I got.
Looks like another free win to me fellows, what do you all think?

>> No.262715726 [DELETED]
File: 369KiB, 1858x918, ang_nm_ss_8.png [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

Man every time i try and sit down and game i play a bunch and forget to actually try and keep this thread alive
Fuck it i'm on angband live playing gray mage on nightmare mode if anyone cares about *bands in this day and age

>> No.262715923
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Quoted By: >>262716114

spoke too soon. Why didn't I just invoke feet?

>> No.262716101
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Second's time the charm as they say. But why barachi yet again?

>> No.262716114

>full mp
>melee range of venom dagger kobold
So this is.....the power of the scizoposter.....

>> No.262716254

>he doesn't know how fairies work
oh no no no no

>> No.262716360

>full mp
He is a fairy, their racial trait is -1MP from spell cost.
So Fire Tongue does not spend any mana.

>> No.262716774
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>> No.262716953
Quoted By: >>262717141

You know these are some pretty legit choices as far as early altars go.
But I think I'll go with the plants since I just built a plant deck in YGO

>> No.262717141
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I keep forgetting those

>> No.262717767

>pre-cataclysm milk is still not pasteurized
isn't it straight up illegal to sell raw milk in the US?

>> No.262718056

yeah, i wish CDDA was more realistic

>> No.262720335
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Quoted By: >>262722379

Life sucks and then you permadie
Wishing for death doesn't work
Torment and agony only halve your hp, they can never kill you directly
Amulet of life saving only prevents death, wearing it doesn't mean you are truly living
Others can change permanently, you will always turn back into yourself
It may feel like you can change your future, but some lives are just doomed, no matter how hard you try
You won't know what you have until it's too late to use it
You don't know where you are until you are gone
You drank unidentified liquid again, didn't you?

>> No.262720550

Were special zombie spawns nerfed or something? I choose the "ambush" start which moves the time to winter, it's spring now and yet I can't see any dangerous zombies like shocker brutes, hulks, masters, necros, skeleton juggernauts, etc. Not even normal brutes now that I think of it. Normal shockers are the worst I've encountered.

>> No.262721343

Same here, I looted a single lab farm and got 74lbs of cabbage and more flour than I know what to do with, I barely even have fridge space for all this food

>> No.262722379
Quoted By: >>262776730

If I was born taller, with a wider jaw and a protruding chin this wouldn't have happened.

>> No.262726305


>> No.262726436


>> No.262727953

are there any small games made by people from this thread or would those all be in agdg?

>> No.262728172

Yes, there is the red prison guy, for example.

>> No.262728235

There's a roguelike called The Red Prison which was made by a guy here.

He's still working on it.

>> No.262732885
Quoted By: >>262734750

How the fuck do you pasteurize milk in dda anyway?

>> No.262734750
Quoted By: >>262739372

pretty sure you can't, but it should be implemented, along with modifiers like protective atmosphere, food additives and cheaply made industrial food.

>> No.262738095

You're a bit slow today, /rlg/.

>> No.262739372

So you're telling me that there's now a useless form of milk that gives you parasites and spawns regularly and I still don't have a renewable supply of cheese?

>> No.262739775
Quoted By: >>262740270

That's right.

Realistic, isn't it?

>> No.262740270
Quoted By: >>262740521

looking at the item tracker looks like raw milk and shelf stable UHT are in, but i haven't seen them ingame so far.

>> No.262740521

I've managed to find both, raw milk was in a house fridge and shelf stable was in a milsurp store

>> No.262741275

The dcss Xtahua server has been down for a month atleast, probably died. The shared acc on OP is unplayable now =(

>> No.262743638
Quoted By: >>262746221

What a shame

>> No.262744670
File: 39KiB, 225x534, pepehermit.gif [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

zkyp said it might be up again this weekend if they get time to work on it, it's not permadead, they've just been too busy to fix it

btw I am streaming if anyone is interested, Draconian Venom Mage, game #33 in a streak


>> No.262746221

He was a good man
>lip smack
What a rotten way to die

>> No.262746816
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Quoted By: >>262747591

>> No.262747591

>flaming eye stares at you from the OTHER SIDE OF THE BUILDING trough 2 windows and instantly fungifies your torso
come on that's bullshit and we all know it.

also wtf is going on with research centers? i'm getting a fuckton of errors and weird walls there.

>> No.262749479
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>> No.262751079

>been playing roguelikes for 15 years
>never won a single one
>want to make my own roguelike
Is this a bad idea? Should I beat one before I start devving?

>> No.262752781
Quoted By: >>262753313

Why? I don't see any reason why not beating a roguelike should make you unable to make a roguelike.

>> No.262753313
Quoted By: >>262753496

What if I end up making a roguelike that's too casual because I'm unable to beat it?

>> No.262753475
Quoted By: >>262753668

Is it a good idea to play a roguelike while doing something else, like watching a stream or listening to music or a podcast?

>> No.262753496

Making an easy game is not necessarily a bad thing.

>> No.262753668

I tend to do that while playing dda, I assume you could easily do it with any one with turn based movement

>> No.262754537
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this is anon's friend bitchering
he ruins dcss and faps to traps

>> No.262754815


>> No.262756529

Criticism of any roguelike in existence
>Here's an example of the developers fucking up and ignoring their audience
>Here is a dev deciding to implement a broadly unpopular decision
>The newly implemented mechanics clash with the original idea behind game design
>The code is rather poor and could be better optimized

Criticism of DCSS

>> No.262759848


>> No.262760105

hey that's my post at the bottom

>> No.262763780

make games you want to play

>> No.262764141
Quoted By: >>262767529

>tfw googling games where you travel only brings up results of games to play while travelling
Where is my comfy Eurotruck simulator experience in ASCII not!Tolkienverse

>> No.262767207


>> No.262767359
Quoted By: >>262767518


>Here's an example of the developers fucking up and ignoring their audience
>Here is a dev deciding to implement a broadly unpopular decision
>The newly implemented mechanics clash with the original idea behind game design
>The code is rather poor and could be better optimized

but anon these are all complaints that could easily be levied at dcss devs

>> No.262767518


>> No.262767529

there's this

>> No.262768363

Good night, /rlg/

>> No.262770329

what's a good java library for roguelikes?

>> No.262776730

Just take a shower, be yourself, and change your bone structure.

>> No.262777564

I feel like reading enough xia xian might lead me to mastering cultivation and performing bone reformation

>> No.262778292

>change your bone structure
Or just get a surgery.

>> No.262780774
Quoted By: >>262787926

I'm checking out Zorbus.
Anyone played it?

>> No.262783119
Quoted By: >>262783318

>Zorbus is heavily party-based
Shame, it looked pretty cool

>> No.262783318

Actually, no. Recruiting companions if completely optional. There is even a Lone Wolf talent that gives bonuses if you play without followers.

>> No.262783541
Quoted By: >>262784090

reading the cdda changelog, it looks like turrets don't produce light and have 3 tiles NV (so as much as most players)
what the fuck

>> No.262784090

Is that recent? They still have huge NV for me.

Don't know what ot think about this. On one hand, taking away their NV makes them much less dangerous in the dark, but on the other, making them not emit light makes it much more likely to stumble upon one is the darkness and impossible to snipe them down from safe distance. They probably shouldn't glow in the first place, though. Never made much sense to me.

>> No.262784170

latest experimental, 20 mins ago

>> No.262787408
File: 42KiB, 350x419, TacticalFatass.jpg [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

>tactical lardass build incoming

>> No.262787926

not fun

>> No.262790086

They could beep, making it impossible to snipe them, but still making them warn.

>> No.262790369

Zorbus sure stinks of Finland

>> No.262792258

Alright, Zorbus wasn't that much fun. I might try again later, but without much hope for it.
>it's kitey
>wizards feel like they're literally one turn away from death every time you don't have a meat wall
>warriors are boring
>targeting issues due to LoS algorithm
>autopickup grabbing trash
>you're supposed to get followers, but all shit dies to infighting few turns after you enter the level
>followers are pretty important but dumb and hard to control
>inventory management is a pain

Zorbus infighting is a perfect example of how a game world can be made deader by attempts at making it more alive.
It just shows you that the world only animates when you're near.

On the other hand, Zorbus has:
>D&D-ish mechanics for melee and ranged weapons
>stats that matter for everyone, no DDA perception or other such bullshit
>natural skill spread that rewards some specialization and some generalization, not "this is ranged so I will never use it"

>> No.262792483
Quoted By: >>262792561

try Rogue, either version 2.5 or 5.4.5, 2.5 is fun to play, 5.4.5 is for hardcore players.

>> No.262792561
Quoted By: >>262793358

What's fun/unfun about rogue?

>> No.262793358
Quoted By: >>262796235

it's simple, it's not tedious, every single item has its niche/ counts, It keeps you tense throught the game. The most unfun part is its difficulty, it's just too damn hard, man. You GOTTA be in the right mind set, you have to take the game seriously if you want to win. It's not like I want to play as Fr/Fr in DCSS and you play and you win. You need to play perfectly/be concentrated throught the whole game. I just described 5.4.5 but you can start with 2.5 it's 100x times easier so that obstacle of enormous difficulty is removed.

>> No.262793490

Thanks for the comments. This is don't get:
"inventory management is a pain"
How so?
-Zorbus dev

>> No.262794329
Quoted By: >>262795308

Most items are heavy, meaning you're supposed to keep their number low. The encumbrance penalties are heavy.
If you're a wizard type, the carrying capacity is so low, that you'll probably be put over it by autopickup grabbing a mid-sized bullet stack.
There aren't many reasons not to drop shit you aren't using and pick it up later if you still want to use it, but it's tedious to do so.

This may be less of a problem once you understand the game mechanics well, but for me all the weapons looked worth considering and testing against creatures.
Shit like, do I need a slashing weapon against zombies or a bashing one against skeletons? I haven't seen any button that would show me critter stats, so I don't know what resistances may they have and is it worth switching weapons to bypass them.

>> No.262795037
Quoted By: >>262795752

I have played vey little, like 30 or 40 minutes.
What threw me off was that I could never hit anybody and if I did I would only deal like 10% of their hp so I just kited and kited and kited and kited again... You're probably supposed to play with allies but you have no control over them so they just die or whatever. Allies without control are very frustrating. Either make a party roguelike so you can switch between them as playable characters or remove them at all.

>> No.262795308
Quoted By: >>262797283

Fair enough.

Critter stats aren't shown to the player. In general, blunt weapons are the best all-around weapons.

The shop-level has containers where you can store items and it can be accessed from all levels via teleporters.

You could also use the "level loot" feature (activated with space) that lists all items on the level and autopilots you to the selected item if you want to pick up something later.

On the first levels there is probably more infighting as there are more animals on the levels.

Autopickup is disabled if the character is encumbered but yeah, encumbrance might be a problem to weak characters. Regardless of character type, you probably want Body to be at least 10.

>> No.262795752

Try playing with a half-orc. Set Body and Motion to at least 12, put all available skill-points to Melee, wield a two-handed weapon and you should destroy everything on the first level pretty easily.

Motion affects Melee and Body is used for extra damage.

Playing with allies is really not necessary. One player who has beaten the game several times almost never uses allies or even summons.

Allies on the first dungeon level are 1st level characters so they're very weak.

>> No.262795926
Quoted By: >>262796694

>-Zorbus dev
Few suggestions:
>show melee/ranged on critters somehow - the floating text on switch is too temporary
>show sounds visually - footstep symbol, arrow pointing at it, being able to look at it to see what sound was it
>show the reason for stopping autoexplore
>"critter enters into view" - I have to check critters like ghouls or ghasts because they look the same
>simulate 500 turns or so when the player first enters a level to de-player-centrize it a bit
>autopickup should not grab trash ammo. not sure how does it work, but it kept grabbing 300 bullets while ignoring 20 holy bullets of wrecking shit +3
Overall the UI is pretty good, but the "static" creature sprites make it feel less informative than DCSS. This can be compensated for with text, but the game currently doesn't do that.

Mechanically, it just felt too focused on simple effects, though. "You deal damage", "You summon a critter", "You attack twice".
I'd expect it to get much more fun with more DoTs for player (renewable poison), procs on attacks, warrior buffs with low magic requirement.

>Critter stats aren't shown to the player.
You could at least show the damage calculation, like
>5 bashing + 2 holy - 3 bashing armor
Hiding information from player is hell for skill curve

>> No.262796235

isn't rogue true random with it's resources and challenges so that the game will sometimes literally generate in such a way that it's almost unwinnable statistically speaking?

>> No.262796694
Quoted By: >>262802698

Thanks, added these to to-do list.

>> No.262797283

>The shop-level has containers where you can store items and it can be accessed from all levels via teleporters.
Yeah, I noticed there is a stash.
The problem isn't lack of stash, the problem is that you need to manage items on person. Including gold. Why does gold have weight?
Some games only have weight penalties for worn/wielded items - I think it would work well here.
I'm not sure what problem is inventory weight supposed to be solving here.

>On the first levels there is probably more infighting as there are more animals on the levels.
I've seen company dudes fighting slimes and demons lower.
The problem is, they only did it for first x turns I was on the level, later I only saw the aftermath.

For more natural dungeons, consider this experiment:
>create a dungeon
>run it for thousands of turns without a player
>check the results: surviving critters, items on the ground
>try to recreate the results using your starting conditions
Ideally, you'd achieve a steady state where waiting for 10k turns and 20k turns doesn't differ much, but still has critters running around and fighting.
Sure, player won't see 10k turn dungeons, but this would prevent the early chaos turning into late silence.
And if it's unrealistic to achieve, have some lower goal - not 10k turns, but at least 200 turns.

>> No.262798090

No, it's just super difficult and unforgivable. As I have already said if you're afraid of "unwinnable" games and 100% winrate you can play 2.5. I think it's definitely possible to streak there

>> No.262798203
Quoted By: >>262798710

you know encumbrance for wielded/worn items has never been too bad, but I can't think of a single example where inventory weight isn't worse than inventory slots or an inventory grid.

Though, IVAN and Elona actually make it pretty fun by essentially making it a form of grinding stats by lifting weights. I might have to take it back if it's full simulation and you can do squats instead of having to level or spend points or quaff stat potions.

>> No.262798710

>I can't think of a single example where inventory weight isn't worse than inventory slots or an inventory grid
Arguably Dredmor, with its dreadful inventory that should just be an infinite bag.

>> No.262799581

I might remove the weight from gold but I don't think anyone other have complained about item weights. Usually players seem to stick to 2-3 weapons and one armor if any.

Monsters might stay in their birth area for several hundred rounds and then start to wander around for some time and then return home. So infighting doesn't just happen in the first few rounds when the player enters the level but is of course more frequent then. Small amount of new creatures are also spawned to the level. It still is very random, depending on monster type, placement, behaviour type and various other things. Sometimes a level is created where there are mostly non-wandering creatures that don't fight each other, sometimes you might find an unique dead.

I actually run the game without the player for x rounds if the player re-enters a level after some time so that he doesn't find creatures in the same exact positions.

>> No.262799706

Yes. But that's just the way it is.

>> No.262799730
Quoted By: >>262800063

Thoughts on Ending Days developed by the team that made Buriedbornes? (Yes I know it's a roguelite but there's no better place to ask about it)

>> No.262800063
File: 576KiB, 1043x1916, Ending Days.jpg [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

Forgot screenshot I took while it's loading
I like the art and music

>> No.262800371

>I don't think anyone other have complained about item weights.
I'll try again later, maybe it's something to get used to.

>So infighting doesn't just happen in the first few rounds when the player enters the level but is of course more frequent then.
The problem is orders of magnitude in difference.
This means that a stealthy, careful player will see mostly empty dungeon, except for the first few turns on a new level. And a new player will most likely be careful until he can learn the game.

>> No.262802156
File: 99KiB, 460x215, 1537247996382.png [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

I am not certain how in the span of two hours I beat pic related twice when I am shit at roguelikes and typically am only ever able to complete certain 7DRL games or certain roguelikes that you can mod. But I did and now I can play on Elite Mode because that's the reward you get when you beat the game twice.

>> No.262802301
File: 619KiB, 960x540, 1541072145031.png [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]

Sorry, four hours, but that's beside the point. I am bad at this genre I like to the point where the only reason I beat TOME is I modded it. What the hell, this game is easy.

>> No.262802304

People generally don't like weight on things like gold and ammunition because it causes tedious opportunity cost decisions where they drop a tiny handful of money or ammo to pick up a sword, then explore a little farther, find another trinket and repeat ad nauseum the same dickering.

Dickering isn't fun, it's work, nobody likes pouring through lists when they wanted to be making tactical decisions.

Making money something weightless like SOULS or BLOOD CRYSTALS is a common choice, since you can use the same currency for everything but it doesn't really matter.

For ammo you could consider having quivers be an actual equipment type holding specified quantities of arrows or bolts or whatever, and you physically wouldn't carry any quantity of loose ammunition with individual weight, you'd just have quivers and boxes that had pre-specified encumbrance uninfluenced by their contents with a message saying you have nothing to put the arrows in if you aren't carrying one.

>> No.262802414
Quoted By: >>262802698


>> No.262802432
Quoted By: >>262802698

POWDER is easy but it's still a good game. Is that game good anon?

>> No.262802698

I might actually play your game now. You've shown to be receptive unlike the anon that is making The Red Prison.
Thank you.
It's good but the developer is a bit... odd. Or at the very least some of the items are. But it's good and you can beat it in about 30 minutes if you know what you're doing. Or two hours if you don't in my case.

>> No.262802728
File: 367KiB, 1918x959, Screenshot_14.png [View Same] [Google] [iqdb] [SauceNAO]
Quoted By: >>262804823

at this point I'm starting to realize that the things I can't stop doing because FUN are also probably the reason I don't stop dying, but I can't exactly give up on my principles

>> No.262804823
Quoted By: >>262806079

pick one and only one

>> No.262806079

>not knowing what FUN is
You need to gb2/gaia/. That's not even a 4chan meme, that's a FUCKING BAY 12 meme.

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