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2707934 No.2707934 [Reply] [Original]
Quoted By: >>2707939 >>2708367

I think the biggest difference between western and eastern media is that the west is preoccupied with pinups and spectacle while the east is all about drama.

There's a visual novel jam going on in March. The 5th year of NaNoRenO on itch.io. The turn out is usually fair, much higher than BaraJam. But I've notice a characteristic of a majority of entries feature external -non social- conflicts. That is they lack drama or any kind of emotional relativity.
A general impression would be a story about a character in a desolate environment and they're really stoic about their circumstances. Compared to a character on a plane full of hysterical people.

I see this in porn as well. Without mentioning any name, again, these are broad paint strokes. It's like the sex (in western media) is consensual, instinctual, maybe even accidental. Fundamental. Often ending in a sex positive one-night stand and a promise of a call back. The sex was good but there's nothing between the characters.
Which is very different from rape, fucking your best friend's dad, taboo incest, accidentally sending nudes to the wrong person resulting in black mail. Getting caught in public. You know. Drama.

>> No.2707939
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2707939
Quoted By: >>2708367

>>2707934
There's nothing wrong with raw sex. But at the same time, it's not a story. If people don't learn about drama and genres we're never going to have a market for erotica beyond a simple stripshow.

What's more, despite having access to Eastern Media, there's a serious lack of discussion about it. Or even western media. I fear I.Q.s are dropping as people relate to genres as "fetishes".
Flipping the table over, in a manner of speaking. Instead of taking about what's on they table, they'll talk about whats under the table i.e. their laps. To be fair, erotica is meant to arouse, so it's understandable that a readership would feel invited to talk about themselves. But they are outside the subject and not actually a part of it.

>> No.2707946
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2707946
Quoted By: >>2707955 >>2708367

There is something of fairy tale behind censorship. A cautionary horror story. That artisans of any sort should be wary about their craft. That they can summon "dark virtues", vices really, but they're virtue in the virtual sense.
As if authors of crime novellas should feel responsible for "inspiring" psychopathic murders. As if it were their fiction that gave them a taste for poetic and ironic deaths, and they sought to imitate.
This is closely related to Sadism. The term Sadistic comes from Marquis de Sade who wrote and unfinished book called the 120 days of Sodom. The footnotes version is that it's about 4 men of status, A judge, banker, bishop, and aristocrat who gather up a bunch of undesirables, young boys and girls, some old prostitutes, and some "studs" selected for their long genitalia. Long, unfinished, story short, they locked themselves up with these people in an and it's suppose to be a collection tales of "passions" but ultimately the abuse quickly escalated. Children are sodomized. And dismembered. Their stay is cut short. We only know from the authors notes of which children escaped alive.
This was considered really dark stuff in the 17th century and people wanted it destroyed. But anthropologist where like, "no. lets save it as a record of how dark the human imagination can be"
But of course today we have like, the Saw movies, and murder room escape. And fanfics galore that lock 2 characters in a room and force them to breed.

>> No.2707955
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2707955
Quoted By: >>2707986 >>2708367

>>2707946
The Marquis in real life was in jail for sexual misconduct. And of course his writings were considered obscene. Although this 120 days of Sodom was dismissed as "boring" being less descriptive as an American Crime novel.

Strangely, nobody seemed to entertain the idea that the characters were metaphors for social institutions that fuck people over. The "Institutionalized Rape" is a popular idea. You got these systems that are suppose to help people, but the people who survive them feel they would have been better off on their own. While the demolishment of brothels and similar business just created misery for others. Prostitutes were forced to loveless marriages; nuns were raped by vagrants who came in off the streets. "Jesus" makes a lousy bouncer. The thinking seemed to be, shit happens, why bother with toilets?

>> No.2707986
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2707986
Quoted By: >>2707989 >>2708367

>>2707955
But sadism would be a lead into a lot of psychological fields of study. Everyone knows about Jung and Freud. But Lacan is important if you want to look at how people related to subject and entertainment in general.

Lacan's petit a."little a" is the schema label for an object-cause of desire. That is, you see something you like in a window or picture frame. Unconsciously, the window becomes the object-cause of desire. It's tied to your desire. Maybe you get up close to the thing you desire and it doesn't feel the same. But you don't know why.
Another example is a Ballerina or Actor on stage. You fall in love with them, but meeting them up close isn't the same. The object of desire was the spotlight that separated the actor from the surrounding darkness.
The absurd and extreme understanding of this mean, you could put anything in a frame or in a spotlight, and you'll be aroused by it. Not sexually aroused, just alerted. The "petit a" as a symbol for framing desire remains in your unconsciousness until you become conscious of it. Maybe with the help of a therapist.

>> No.2707989
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2707989
Quoted By: >>2708008 >>2708367

>>2707986
Emotions are also a kind of "petit a"
But really your brain makes your body react first, then the awareness of your body's reaction translates to an emotion. So there are people who had artificial hearts put in, and were extremely anxious and depressed, because their new heart was a little lower in their chest. Their emotion center was registering this sensation as anxiety. But over time their brains rewired themselves.
Kinda like boys, learn that just because they pop a boner, doesn't mean something aroused them. Could you imagine? It be like cupid's arrow, but without the arrow. You'd just have to be the first thing they see when they wake up with morning wood.

Anyways. I'm saying all this because drama works the same. Only instead of recognizing physical reactions, it's the social and situational context that we see which triggers our emotion response.

>> No.2708008
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2708008

>>2707989
The thought process is understood in Japanese Media but hilariously misinterpreted when translated to English.
It's practically meme line. "What is this feeling?" - said in the presence of naked men or sex act. Like the character is in denial that they're gay or into -whatever it is they're seeing-
But really it's a question of what is it he desires. And what is causing him to desire it.

So it's like this, you have these 2 swordsmen. One is bound and the other is getting molested by Orcs. The bound one, Luke, like fustrated like, "Why aren't you fighting back?" and the big guy, Uru, is like "Don't look at me" and in that moment *boing* Luke get's hard.

It wasn't the Orcs, it was the fact that Luke was watching him. Uru has an M-complex. His own humiliation is getting him off.
Luke on the other hand is sadistic. He's not going anywhere now that he knows "what's up". But it's not a "malicious" kind of sadism. The Lacan interpretation is that a sadists desires to be the "petit a"
Sadists want to be the shiny wrapper with the brand, that you're suppose to peel off and throw away to eat the candy bar. It's self gratuitous. "I'm the reason you're here" "I made you do this". It's like Joker's relationship with Batman, or Troll poster online "I made you look. Now ban me" It's a weird kind of intimacy.

Sadist and Masochists make a pair. Like Peanut Butter and Jelly. Because they're both each other's "petit a"
The Uru is aroused only because Luke is there watching. And Luke is aroused, because he realizes that his gaze is making Uru this way.

>> No.2708015
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2708015
Quoted By: >>2708367 >>2708410

>>2708008
Normally an S&M relationship is reduced to a Sadist with a whip and a Masochist in a gimp suit.

But really it the verbal "humiliation" that's getting the masochist off. And the sense of mental and physical control that the Sadist feel he wield over the masochist. Their relationship is kind of lopsided. A lot of the time the Sadist takes things to the extreme if he's really into the role of a torture artist. "Yes! Hate me!"
Sometimes "roleplaying" just isn't good enough for the sadist and things get real. Not satisfied until he's driving everyone he loves away.
Sometimes the sadist has autism or some form of mental illness, and "rejection" is the closest thing to human intimacy they can get.

The next thing you should understand is where this unconscious association came from. Often in BL stories we see the masochist humiliated as a child. He peed his pants or something but following that someone, another boy, shows him affection in contrast to the other children pointing and laughing. So that's how humiliation becomes the petit a that frames intimacy.

>> No.2708078
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2708078
Quoted By: >>2708132 >>2708367

Relationship dynamics are really important to understand if you're doing Romance. The point of a romance novel is to develop that relationship. Sometimes you have characters already in a relationship, but you have to do the work of showing what that relationship is.
There has to be something that these characters get from each other that they can't get from anyone else. And it's usually got to do with their circumstances in life.

I'll pull out "Ghostboy and Diablo" from Class Comics as an example of a bad romance. Their relationship is nonexistent. To start, they're already a "couple" from the start of the G&D issues. To learn how they got together you have to "See: BoyToon Adventure #1". Which is low for a different reason. But it's aweful because the duo basically spend the whole story apart and come together at the end like "I was worried about you" "Really?" *kiss*
That's it. That's IT!
It would be fine they were two single gay men who didn't want to be single. But the story doesn't establish that. It doesn't do any work to explain why their relationship works or is convenient.

>> No.2708132
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2708132
Quoted By: >>2708367

>>2708078
Turns out Diablo is actually a married man with a full grown son. Additional reading require. But obviously the fact that he's been fooling around with Ghostboy in secret is a big deal. G&D want to stay together, which means Diablo has to tell his family. And Ghostboy needs to come out as gay to his mama, for no real reason except the plot demands an incident.
In theory this has the makings of good drama, as everything comes out on it's own before they get the chance to confess.
But then they go off on this schizo adventure which doesn't maintain any of Aristotle's unities of place, time, and action. English dramas tend to throw out unity of place and time. But unity of action is what gives the story a purpose. Without it the adventure feels kinda tacky and incoherent.
Diablo undergoes mitosis or something, which is convenient but all the tension created at the beginning of the story goes slack. There could have been unity here if Diablo had wish, in issue 1, that he could be 2 people. But he didn't. And god knows why Ghostboy was compelled to tell his mom anything. At a stretch there's a message in here about hurting family members to get what you want, but they dropped the ball releasing 4 issued over 5 years. Or maybe they realized that they couldn't justify G&D's relationship. They were together simply because they wanted to be, and willing to tormented their families in the process. Diablo couldn't even explain to himself . Just saying "He gets me" and then immediately hunches over in pain, possibly signaling the start of his mitosis? I can't imagine many people caught this because it happens 2 issues late, which are released years apart.

>> No.2708262
Quoted By: >>2708387

oh my god it really is just one poster

>> No.2708266
Quoted By: >>2708387

if you had a point you completely squandered any hope of anyone else giving a shit with this border wall of text, sit down sis

>> No.2708270
Quoted By: >>2708387

libarts schools were a mistake

>> No.2708346
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2708346
Quoted By: >>2708364 >>2708367

Great. Lets move onto metaphors.

I knew a guy in high school that was super into Godzilla. Or so I thought. The school gave him a special keyboard because he had disability related to his nervous system. He didn't have the coordination to write with a pencil. Anyways, he used the keyboard to write Godzilla fanfictions. I really admired that and was lead to believe he was some kind of Stephen Hawking and a fellow nerd. We didn't have any classes together, but sometimes I talked to him on the bus where he let me read his fics.

Then his younger brother entered high school and I found out his extra curriculum of "creative writing" was to help with his learning disability. I had no idea at that point that Kaiju were metaphors. You know, like Godzilla is nuclear fallout. King Kong was racial segregation.
I remember talking to his younger brother, and his eyes rolled into the back of his head at the mention of "Godzilla". Apparently it was suppose to be a fun subject to help people with autism grasp symbolic language. But people like his older brother are "stubborn", which is a nice why of saying "conceited". They have a habit of deciding for themselves what the lesson is. And they end up doing endless "research" to compensate for their lack of understand. They're suppose to take a concept like "penis envy" and roll it into a Power Ranger's Monster-of-the-week with a name like "Size Queen"
Instead, his fanfics were all size comparison and "true facts". Godzilla raises out of the ocean to the height of [whatever building] and walks precisely so many meters down [Tokyo Street name] until he notices his reflection in [Name of famous building]. Letting out a roar measuring at [# decibel] he shatters all [# of windows]
Nobody can "technically" fail them. You're suppose to be encouraging. But nobody can tell them what they're doing wrong. I mean, they're so coincided they'll judge for themselves what the point is, even when it's your point. You can't understand FOR them.

>> No.2708364
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2708364
Quoted By: >>2708369

>>2708346
Of course I would have liked to help him make connections and overcome his disability. But the counselors were like, "Please don't undermine the special education program."
They were worried I'd burst his bubble and make him aware of institutional deceptions. At the time I could sympathize with the idea that he didn't need to learn everything, and what was important was that he survive.

>> No.2708367
Quoted By: >>2708387

>>2707934
>>2707939
>>2707946
>>2707955
>>2707986
>>2707989
>>2708008
>>2708015
>>2708078
>>2708132
>>2708346

This is the first time someone says the reality of all in what we often like, follow, reblog, worship.
On my whole life haven't read something like this.
Kudos for you, for actually know what you are talking.

Yet.

Nobody will read it, because and I think "you already know why".

>> No.2708369
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2708369

>>2708364
Like, it was better if they walk away with inflated egos and live off a diet of aphorisms like "judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree..."
But the thing is, they were able to climb the tree.

>> No.2708387
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2708387
Quoted By: >>2708389

Case and point
>>2708262
>>2708266
>>2708270
>>2708367

Here we have individuals that have imposed themselves in a topic. They're not here to contribute to the topic, they're here tear it apart. Because they think they're bigger than it. Like a Sadistic Kaiju.
At least that's what they want to do. But I'm sure you can see the fallacy of "I don't understand, but you're wrong" or "your point doesn't exist if I can't see it". Their motivation is an open book.

Have you ever looked at Macro Porn and wondered what was "sexy" about humping a building? This goes back to sadism and how sadists are often depicted with a mental disability. They desire to be part of society, and the thing framing society is civilization. The cities, the architecture. But sadly there's no niche for them. But making a big commotion generates the same attention. What they want is not to be ignored.

The lack of self-awareness compounds poor expression. Like the Ghostboy & Diablo comic fails to lay the ground work to make Diablo's Mitosis a significant event. My friend writing the Kaiju fiction fails outline the significance of a kaiju destroying his own reflect in a tower building. It has his face, but it's not his "point". Perhaps it's confirmation bias, or pretension, that takes the context of the story for granted.

We know Godzilla represents nuclear fallout because the story frames with dialogue of atomic bomb tests in the beginning.
We know Pacific Rim represent the threat of global warming, because that kaiju are categorized like hurricanes, getting bigger and more frequent.

>> No.2708389
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2708389

>>2708387
There's some verbal irony in identifying the "petit a" of a Macro Fetish.
But there's is challenges in laying the foundations of a Macro Fetish Drama that ends in a giant fuck everything up.

In Monsters Vs Aliens, the unity of action (Aristotle's Poetics) surrounding the giant woman is that it started with her wedding day. She was figuratively a big deal before she was a literal big deal.

How you'd spin that for an erotica drama is a challenge. If we assume the drama ends with a giant nutting over a city. How do you formulate the beginning? What is the framework? The "petit a"? If you're working with a sadistic character then that's easy. They want to be the "petit a", the candy
wrapper. The face on the billboard selling a product. Or more abstractly, the giant with their "produce" everywhere.

>> No.2708410

>>2708008
>>2708015
Where are these from ?



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